Liam Mclaughlan: Why a romantic reunification of the SSP and Tommy Sheridan can't work

Liam Mclaughlan, who stood for election for the SSP in the 2015 General Election for Glasgow East, says it is vital for the left in Scotland not to repeat the mistakes of the past

THE split of the SSP in the early 2000s is a subject I've never written at any length about.

I explain as best I can with my limited knowledge on the subject to friends, family or members of the public when out campaigning who may happen to ask.

Unless I see comrades who I know to be fantastic campaigners and fantastic people committed to building a mass socialist party for the benefit of working class Scots being vilified, that is.

The answer is not to merely turn the clock back to 2003 and pretend the events of the last decade never happened. The most important aspect of history is to prevent the same thing happening again.

The reasoning behind me never actively discussing this issue is partly two-fold. The first being that I, like a large proportion of current SSP activists across Scotland, wasn't involved in the party throughout that time, and was merely a kid.

The second being a desire for the party, the wider left and most importantly the country to move forward to the tasks ahead of us.

It is, however, after reading Mark Scott's piece on CommonSpace yesterday that I felt I had to write a short response. I must stress here that I write in a personal, not a party capacity.

What seems obvious to me throughout Mark's piece is both his deep regret at the lack of socialist voices within Holyrood, and a deep desire for those voices to be back in the parliament when it reconvenes for a new session this time next year - a desire and sadness that I and many others across the country also feel deeply.

The answer, however, is not to merely turn the clock back to 2003 and pretend the events of the last decade never happened. The most important aspect of history is to, with hindsight, prevent the same thing happening again.

I appreciate and acknowledge Mark's highlighting of the fact he watches from afar, however I used to, like Mark, draw the same conclusions. I, too, longed for a re-unification of the SSP and Tommy Sheridan.

I actually tweeted something to that effect in early 2012. Subsequent to this, Alan McCombes offered to send me a copy of his book with greater detail on the subject of the SSP split, Downfall, a must-read for anyone interested in more information on this subject and for anyone wishing to be involved in the Scottish Left.

The first step to any form of reconciliation begins with admitting your mistakes, something Tommy hasn't done to this day and shows no signs of ever doing.

After reading Alan's book, two weeks later I joined the Scottish Socialist Party. I've since met, campaigned alongside and have the pleasure of describing as comrades the people Tommy Sheridan labelled as scabs in the front page of the Daily Record.

I've spent nearly three years now alongside those people and others working to rebuild the party he pledged to and thankfully failed to destroy.

There's no personal vendetta from me, I've only ever met Tommy once personally, but the first step to any form of reconciliation begins with admitting your mistakes, something Tommy hasn't done to this day and shows no signs of ever doing.

In his piece Mark rightly highlights the substantial mark the SSP made and continues to make in Scottish politics. From the abolition of warrant sales bill brought forward by Tommy himself, to the free school meals proposal pioneered by Frances Curran and the free prescriptions bill written by Colin Fox to name a few.

It's for these reasons among others, including our efforts since 1998 and highlighted most recently in last year's referendum as we fought for our unwavering commitment to the establishment of an independent Socialist Scotland and a modern democratic republic, that I'm proud to be an SSP member.

Mark is also right to mention the effect that having no socialist voice in Holyrood for seven years has had on the politics of Scotland and the people the SSP was established to fight for.

Although contrary to popular belief, Easterhouse, Maryhill and areas like it are often nothing like he describes and within them are often the best examples of both tenacious community spirit and neighbourly solidarity.

It's the temporary halt to this party record, however, that shows better than any piece of writing that I or others could pen on this subject which is the true tragedy of Tommy's behaviour.

I often wonder where the party and the country would be if the events of the defamation case onwards never occurred, and the effect of the six MSPs - or by that time possibly even more socialist MSPs in the parliament - during the independence referendum and in high profile campaign roles in particular.

A romantic reunification of the SSP and Tommy wouldn't solve the problems of the left in Scotland. Hard work in communities and building alternatives to austerity politics at both Holyrood and Westminster will.

You cannot, however, change the past. What you can do is examine that past, learn the mistakes, and pledge not to repeat them. In that regard I urge CommonSpace readers to acquire a copy of Alan's book which is available online or in most bookstores. (Although I'd urge readers to avoid Amazon where possible, as they don't pay any tax).

As for the SSP? Afore mentioned attempts to destroy the party failed miserably. We now have 30 branches across Scotland, reaching from the Highlands to the Borders and everywhere in between.

We have a new layer of young activists with fresh ideas, bursting with enthusiasm and experience having come through the campaign of a lifetime in 2014's referendum on Independence.

And in the true spirit of the party, we continue to build progressive alliances, seeking to instigate the broadest possible left challenge at next year's Holyrood election. All to put forward ideas that would transform the lives of working class Scots like those in my home patch of Easterhouse, Maryhill or many others like it.

A romantic reunification of the SSP and Tommy Sheridan wouldn't solve the problems of the left in Scotland. Hard work in communities, building alternatives to and resisting the effects of austerity politics at both Holyrood and Westminster will.

If you're ready for the struggle ahead, access to this party remains open to all.

Follow Liam Mclaughlan on Twitter.

Picture courtesy of the Scottish Socialist Party/YouTube

Comments

Narayan

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

Mark Scott (not verified)

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Bruno Baumgärtner (not verified)

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

Derek Louden

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Derek Louden

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

Derek Louden

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

pictishbeastie

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

pictishbeastie

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

pictishbeastie

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

Robin Barclay

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Robin Barclay

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

Robin Barclay

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

markryle

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

markryle

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

markryle

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

Karen Dietz

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Karen Dietz

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

Karen Dietz

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

Roisin Murphy

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Roisin Murphy

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

Roisin Murphy

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

William Steele

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

William Steele

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

William Steele

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

Steve West

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Steve West

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

Steve West

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

DAVID SMART

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

DAVID SMART

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

DAVID SMART

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

steve andrews

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

steve andrews

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

steve andrews

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

Bill Fraser

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Bill Fraser

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

Bill Fraser

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

Andrew Stuart's picture

Andrew Stuart

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Andrew Stuart's picture

Andrew Stuart

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

Andrew Stuart's picture

Andrew Stuart

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

Paul Smith

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Paul Smith

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

Paul Smith

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

Jon

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Jon

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

Jon

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

Andy Ellis

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Andy Ellis

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

Andy Ellis

Mon, 08/03/2015 - 11:18

Liam, you are still very young and I am over 70. What I have learned in all those years is, the left has never be able to manage differences of opinions in a positive way. The democratic discussions about opinions, beliefs and convictions, are the welcome salt in the left soup. Fractioning is not the solution, as the only result is that 15% each with three left parties is not 45% in the end. It can only be about half of this. The others, the more right-leaning ones are in this matter much more tolerant. People with different ideals are either sent to the Farts (sorry the lords) or are otherwise put off the media. Once the left will learn to overlook with greatness personal quarrels and start fighting together, a simple arithmetic logic says, they must have a majority in most votes, be they antiquated First past the post or a modern two chamber parliament with a pure proportional system (the constituency MP's are in the second chamber, and all executives elected in the Parliaments leave these to form the Cabinet).
After all, there are vastly more people in any society who earn salaries and wages than the ones who pay them. But as long as the left makes headlines in petty little ridiculous fights over non political personal behaviour, they can not expect the necessary trust from the masses. In my 45 years of working, from a small worker up to a managing director, I had often situations to work with most atrocious people I disliked totally, but I had to work with them without they realising my adversity to them.

Malki80

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 11:35

Thanks for your words, Liam. Thoroughly enjoyed reading your perspective on things. All the best, Mark

Malki80

Fri, 07/31/2015 - 17:05

You heard one side of the story and state 'I've only ever met Tommy once personally'. Yet this is enough to decide the man is guilty? The verdict makes no sense and the recording that it was heavily dependent on was quite apparently bogus. Aside from that, the left should get behind the Greens! They're already successfully pushing for a lot of what the left want and are more evolved. How about getting the country moving in the right direction first and then you can balkanize again when we're 3/4 of the way where you want to go...

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